Showing posts with label Executive Privilege. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Executive Privilege. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 1, 2015

One might assume that with such a high level of cooperation, State would have long ago handed over all relevant documents. But that is apparently not the case.



The State Department has informed the House Select Committee on Benghazi that it is withholding "a small number" of documents from investigators on the basis of "important executive branch institutional interests." The statement, made in a letter from Assistant Secretary of State Julia Frifield to committee chairman Rep. Trey Gowdy, amounts to a de facto claim of some form of executive branch privilege.

Frifield made the claim in a letter turning over 3,600 pages of Benghazi-related documents from three current and former administration officials: Susan Rice, Jake Sullivan, and Cheryl Mills. Rice, a former United Nations ambassador, is now national security adviser, while Sullivan and Mills are close aides to Hillary Clinton who worked at the department when she was secretary of state.

The State Department has long insisted that it is fully cooperating with lawmakers investigating the Sept. 11, 2012, terrorist attack. One might assume that with such a high level of cooperation, State would have long ago handed over all relevant documents. But that is apparently not the case.

Friday, November 7, 2014

Election Day Document Dump: DOJ Turned Over 64,000 Fast and Furious Documents Held Under Obama's Executive Privilege


After years of legal battles between the House Oversight Committee and Attorney General Eric Holder, 64,280 redacted Operation Fast and Furious documents held under President Obama's assertion of executive privilege since 2012, have been turned over by the Department of Justice after an order from U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson. - Katie Pavlich/Townhall (image source)

The Justice Department was originally ordered to turn over a list of documents, better known as a Vaughn Index, with explanations as to why documents fall under executive privilege claims by November 1.

“When Eric Holder wants to know why he was the first Attorney General held in criminal contempt of Congress, he can read the judge’s order that compelled the production of 64,280 pages that he and President Obama illegitimately and illegally withheld from Congress. Since these pages still do not represent the entire universe of the documents the House of Representatives is seeking related to the Justice Department’s cover-up of the botched gun-walking scandal that contributed to the death of a Border Patrol agent, our court case will continue," Chairman Darrell Issa said in a statement. "I am deeply concerned that some redactions to these documents may still be inappropriate and contrary to the judge’s order in the case. This production is nonetheless a victory for the legislative branch, a victory for transparency, and a victory for efforts to check Executive Branch power. As the production is extensive and may contain sensitive information, our investigative staff will be carefully examining the documents turned over last night.”

...The legal battle between DOJ and the House Oversight Committee is ongoing. Attorney General Holder announced his resignation in September, but will not leave office until a replacement is confirmed after the midterm elections.

Monday, October 27, 2014

Obama Asserts Fast and Furious Executive Privilege Claim for Holder's Wife...


"Obama’s executive privilege claims over these records are a fraud and an abuse of his office." - Judicial Watch

Valerie Jarrett Key Player in Fast and Furious Cover-Up After Holder Lied to Congress

President Obama’s trusted senior advisor, Valerie Jarrett, was a key player in the effort to cover up that Attorney General Eric Holder lied to Congress about the Fast and Furious scandal, according to public records obtained by Judicial Watch. - JUDICIAL WATCH

The information is part of a Department of Justice (DOJ) “Vaughn index” detailing records about the gun-running operation known as Fast and Furious. JW had to sue the agency for the records after the Obama administration failed to provide them under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). A federal court ordered the DOJ to provide the records over the agency’s objections. Yesterday JW reported on the broad information in the records, including that Obama asserted executive privilege for Holder’s wife as part of the administration’s efforts to cover up the scandal....

This directly contradicted Holder’s May 3, 2011 testimony to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, during which he stated that he, “probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.” The October 4, 2011 date may also be significant because it came shortly after the August 30, 2011 resignation of U.S. Attorney for Arizona Dennis Burke and reassignment of acting ATF director Kenneth Melson to the position of “senior forensics advisor” at DOJ.

THE FAST AND FURIOUS COVER-UP, HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT - John Hinderaker/Powerline

...Judicial Watch served a Freedom of Information Act request for the same documents that were requested by the House committee. When the Obama administration refused to produce them on the same privilege grounds, Judicial Watch sued. The court finally ordered DOJ to produce a “Vaughn index,” listing the documents being withheld and providing enough information about them to assess the grounds asserted. The administration tried to put that production off until after the election, but the court required that it be produced last week. I made some initial observations about the Vaughn index here, noting that emails between Eric Holder and his wife and mother had been withheld based on the “deliberative process” privilege....

Saturday, September 27, 2014

Court Orders DOJ to Release List of Fast and Furious Docs

A federal judge ordered the Justice Department Thursday to release a list of documents it is withholding from the public related to Operation Fast and Furious within the next month. - Washington Free Beacon

The conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch sued the Justice Department in September 2012 for documents related to Operation Fast and Furious, where federal agents allowed thousands of guns to cross the border and fall into the hands of violent drug cartels.

The Justice Department has claimed executive privilege over the documents.

“The Obama administration failed to game the courts and now will have to account for its Fast and Furious lies,” Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton said in a statement. “Two federal courts have now rejected Eric Holder’s election-related ploy to keep this information from the American people. This is a battle that put Eric Holder in contempt of Congress, saw Nixonian assertions of executive privilege by Barack Obama, and a hapless Congress in the face of all this lawlessness.”

Holder announced on Thursday that he is resigning as Attorney General.

Friday, September 26, 2014

Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's Sister on Timing of Holder Resignation: "Not a Coincidence"

EXCLUSIVE - Katie Pavlich/Townhall
..."I do not find it a coincidence that Eric Holder chose now to resign after Judge Bates denied the request from the DOJ to delay the release of the Fast and Furious documents. I personally think Eric Holder was really hoping that the documents would never be made public to my family and the American people," Terry-Willis tells Townhall. "Will we ever get the accountability for my brother, Brian, Jaime Zapata and every other person who lost their lives to the guns from this horrific scandal? I don't know, but I have a serious gut feeling when we finally see what is in those documents....the dynamics of this investigation are going to change and hopefully the people involved are brought to justice. Eric Holder can run, but there will be no hiding. The truth always reveals itself."

In a separate statement put out on behalf of the Brian Terry Foundation, family spokesman Ralph Terry says Holder's resignation is welcomed....
GOP to Obama: Don't replace Holder in lame-duck Congress - The Hill

The Eric Holder Tragedy - New York Sun Editorial
The resignation — if that’s what it is — of Attorney General Eric Holder signals the end of one of the most divisive tenures in the history of the cabinet. It was no doubt inevitable after Mr. Holder was determined, in a bi-partisan vote, to be in criminal contempt of the 112th United States House. He became the only sitting cabinet officer in history to be so found. He reacted to the contempt finding with more contempt. From that point on his tenure in office was unsustainable....

We mention that to underline that we are not, reflexively, in the anti-Holder camp. All the greater our disappointment in his conduct of his office. His default in the fast-and-furious gun-running case was the kind of thing for which he should have taken responsibility and resigned; to have instead spent years fighting the investigation was shocking and to have allowed it to get to the point of criminal contempt, which is what the House found him to have committed, is a scandal.

More broadly one can lay to Mr. Holder some of the responsibility for the souring of Mr. Obama’s presidency. The eloquent Illinoisan, after all, had been lofted to office on a huge vote. He was the first African-American president. How unifying his presidency could have been. Yet his attorney general spurned, even mocked, the Supreme Court’s civil rights rulings, took a litigious approach to the border states inundated with undocumented immigrants, and aggravated a divided Congress.

Thursday, June 26, 2014

IRS, EPA computer crashes prompt question --- Has Obama 'burned the tapes?'

Nobody will ever know for certain if Watergate would have ended differently had Nixon burned the tapes, but odds are good he would not have had to resign as president. - Mark Tapscott/Washington Examiner

Now that Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Gina McCarthy has admitted that her agency, like the IRS, can't produce important emails requested by Congress due to a computer crash, the question must be asked: Has Obama "burned the tapes?"

ep. Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., told IRS Commissioner John Koskinen that "nobody believes" the tax agency's claim that a computer crash mysteriously destroyed all of Lois Lerner's emails to and from people outside of IRS during the very period in which Tea Party groups were being targeted for harassment in the 2010 and 2012 campaigns.

Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., was equally skeptical of McCarthy's explanation of why her agency is apparently unable to locate emails concerning EPA's dealings with a controversial environmental consultant.

"Two different government agencies tried to convince Congress and the American people this week that emails disappear into thin air. We didn’t believe it when we heard it from the IRS and I’m not inclined to believe the EPA’s excuses," Meadows told McCarthy Wednesday.

But there is a context in which crashing hard drives at IRS and EPA make perfectly logical sense. For starters, the Obama administration has given new meaning to the term "massive resistance" in its responses to congressional oversight.

Friday, April 11, 2014

Boehner Unloads on WH Over IRS, Benghazi, Fast & Furious: "They Owe the American People the Truth"



At his weekly press briefing today, Speaker Boehner unloaded on the White House for refusing to tell the American people the truth about the IRS, Benghazi, and Fast and Furious...

“The frustration is, is that the American people have not been told the truth about what happened at the IRS.

“The American people have not been told the truth about what happened in Fast and Furious.

“The administration has not told the American people the truth about Benghazi.

“We’ve been going through all of these hearings, having to hold people in contempt, because they’ve made it impossible to get to the documents.

“They have not been forthcoming. They owe the American people the truth.

“And when it comes to Benghazi, we’ve got four Americans who are dead, and their families deserve the truth about what happened. And the administration refuses to tell them the truth.”

Monday, March 17, 2014

AP: Obama transparency getting worse...

The Obama administration has a way to go to fulfill its promises from Day 1 to become the most transparent administration in history. - AP

...The AP could not determine whether the administration was abusing the national security exception or whether the public asked for more documents about sensitive subjects. The NSA said its 138 percent surge in records requests were from people asking whether it had collected their phone or email records, which it generally refuses to confirm or deny. To do otherwise, the NSA said, would pose an "an unacceptable risk" because terrorists could check to see whether the U.S. had detected their activities. It censored records or fully denied access to them in 4,246 out of 4,328 requests, or 98 percent of the time.

Journalists and others who need information quickly to report breaking news fared worse than ever last year. Blocking news organizations from urgently obtaining records about a government scandal or crisis - such as the NSA's phone-records collection, Boston bombings, trouble with its health care website, the deadly shootings at the Washington Navy Yard or the attack on the diplomatic mission in Benghazi - can delay uncovering significant developments until after decisions are made and the public's interest has waned.

The government said the average time it took to answer a records request ranged from less than one day to nearly two years.

...Sunday was the start of Sunshine Week, when news organizations promote open government and freedom of information.

Wednesday, December 18, 2013

‘TROUBLING’: FEDERAL JUDGE ORDERS OBAMA ADMIN. TO DISCLOSE DOCUMENT IT’S BEEN TRYING TO KEEP HIDDEN

A federal judge Tuesday ordered the disclosure of a government-wide foreign aid directive President Barack Obama signed in 2010 but wanted to keep hidden from the public, Politico reports. The judge called the scope of the government’s argument for “presidential communications privilege” rather “troubling.” - The Blaze

The Department of Justice has argued that the Presidential Policy Directive on Global Development was covered by executive privilege, even though the information is “non-classified” and sends directives to agencies not to the president of the United States.

Judge orders Obama foreign aid order released - Josh Gerstein/Politico

Rejecting one of the Obama White House's most aggressive attempts to preserve executive branch secrecy, a federal judge Tuesday ordered the disclosure of a government-wide foreign-aid directive President Barack Obama signed in 2010 but refused to make public....

Acting on a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the Center for Effective Government, U.S. District Court Judge Ellen Huvelle concluded that the presidential order is not properly within the bounds of the so-called ‘presidential communications privilege’ The judge went further, calling "troubling" the sweeping nature of the government's argument's in the case.

The judge also suggested the administration had lost sight of the purposes of the Freedom of Information Act and transparency itself.

"The government appears to adopt the cavalier attitude that the President should be permitted to convey orders throughout the Executive Branch without public oversight ... to engage in what is in effect governance by 'secret law,'" Huvelle said.

Judge smacks Obama secrecy in unique FOIA case - McClatchy

Read Huvelle’s entire opinion here.

Tuesday, November 19, 2013

Holder's appeal denied

A federal judge has refused Attorney General Eric Holder's request that he be allowed to proceed now with an appeal in a case where the House of Representatives is seeking to enforce subpoenas for documents related to the controversial Operation Fast and Furious gun investigation. - Politico

...Jackson's latest ruling means it is likely the Justice Department will have to produce a detailed log of what was withheld from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and why. Rounds of protracted litigation over the legitimacy of the withholdings seem all but certain, unless the sides come to an agreement which has heretofore eluded them....

◼ Meanwhile: GOP Congressman Introduces Resolution to Impeach Eric Holder - Townhall
Congressman Pete Olson (R-TX), is setting forth articles of impeachment against Attorney General Eric Holder for high crimes and misdemeanor. His office sent out a press release yesterday listing Holder’s offenses, which include lying to Congress, refusing to comply with a subpoena, and failing to fulfill his oath of office....

“For nearly five years, Attorney General Holder has systematically deceived Congress and destroyed the credibility of the Justice Department in the eyes of the American people. During his tenure, Mr. Holder refused to cooperate with a congressional investigation into Operation Fast and Furious and the resulting death of a Border Patrol agent, refused to prosecute IRS officials who unlawfully disclosed private tax records to third party groups, and misled Congress about his involvement in the investigation of a journalist [...] “I urge my colleagues to join me in beginning this process by cosponsoring this measure now. The American people deserve answers and accountability.”
20 HOUSE MEMBERS DEMAND ERIC HOLDER'S IMPEACHMENT - Breitbart
...The resolution cites a string of allegations against Holder, such as involvement in Operation Fast and Furious, refusal to enforce the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and various drug laws, refusal to prosecute IRS officials responsible for leaking confidential GOP donor tax information, and misleading testimony before Congress this year about whether he approved invasive investigative tactics against reporters like Fox News’ James Rosen.... When introducing the resolution with Articles of Impeachment for Holder, Olson said, “for nearly five years, Attorney General Holder has systematically deceived Congress and destroyed the credibility of the Justice Department in the eyes of the American people....”

Sunday, October 6, 2013

ONE STEP CLOSER TO JUSTICE FOR BRIAN TERRY: Judge Rejects Holder's Fast&Furious Document Cover-Up

Scandal: The truth about how and why Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata and hundreds of Mexican nationals were killed with weapons supplied by this administration may yet come out as a court lets a lawsuit proceed. - Doug Ross

The most transparent administration in history suffered a defeat Monday, when U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson turned down the Justice Department's request to dismiss a lawsuit seeking "Fast and Furious" documents hidden by Attorney General Eric Holder and the Justice Department after President Obama invoked executive privilege.

The lawsuit was brought by Rep. Darrell Issa's House Oversight and Government Reform Committee after the president asserted executive privilege to prevent records about the administration's response to the "Operation Fast and Furious" gun-running scandal from being turned over to Congress....

President Obama's supposed regard for the rule of law hit a new low when, on the eve of a vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over these and other documents, he granted his AG's 11th-hour request to hide sought-after documents on Operation Fast and Furious using executive privilege....

Wednesday, August 14, 2013

More Fast and Furious guns surface at crimes in Mexico

Three more weapons from Fast and Furious have turned up at crime scenes in Mexico, CBS News has learned, as the toll from the controversial federal operation grows. - Sharyl Atttkisson/CBS

...ATF special agent John Dodson blew the whistle on his agency's gunwalking in an interview with CBS News in 2011....

The government first denied any guns had been allowed to "walk" into criminal hands. Later, the Justice Department acknowledged using the strategy, claiming it was intended to see where the weapons ended up in hopes of capturing a major cartel leader. But the agency ordered an immediate halt to the practice calling it highly improper.

The Justice Department's refusal to turn over certain Fast and Furious documents led to a bipartisan vote in the House of Representatives in June 2012 to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress. Then, the Obama administration used executive privilege for the first time, to withhold requested documents from Congress. The Republican-led House Oversight Committee is suing for release of the material.

Monday, July 8, 2013

White House's Fast And Furious Claims Another Victim

Scandal: The administration's gun-running fiasco claims the life of a Mexican police chief, revealing that the weapons have made it into the hands of drug cartels deep inside Mexico. - IBD

It's been lost in the litany of Obama scandals, but Fast and Furious, like Benghazi, is one that has produced a body count, in this case one that's still rising as the White House and Department of Justice continue to restrict and hinder access to related documents. Attorney General Eric Holder remains in contempt of Congress for his role in the ongoing cover-up.

President Obama's contempt for the rule of law hit a new low when, on the eve of a vote to hold the AG in contempt of Congress, he granted Holder's 11th-hour request to hide sought-after documents on Operation Fast and Furious under the cover of executive privilege.

One internal document obtained by the Los Angeles Times shows how deadly Fast and Furious was and continues to be with the death of Luis Lucio Rosales Astorga, police chief in the city of Hostotipaquillo. He was shot to death Jan. 29 when gunmen intercepted his patrol car and opened fire. A bodyguard was also killed.

Mexican police chief killed by rifle connected to “Fast & Furious” gunwalking program - 21stcenturywire

The Obama administration invoked executive privilege during the House Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General Eric Holder last summer. Holder has been accused of withholding crucial documents that could reveal who was responsible for carrying out the illegal operation.

Tuesday, May 28, 2013

Britt Hume on Eric Holder and his job performance



Fire Eric Holder: Column - Jonathan Turley/USATODAY

Holder's refusal to accept responsibility for the AP investigation was something of a change for the political insider. His value to President Obama has been his absolute loyalty. Holder is what we call a "sin eater" inside the Beltway — high-ranking associates who shield presidents from responsibility for their actions....

For Obama, there has been no better sin eater than Holder. When the president promised CIA employees early in his first term that they would not be investigated for torture, it was the attorney general who shielded officials from prosecution. When the Obama administration decided it would expand secret and warrantless surveillance, it was Holder who justified it. When the president wanted the authority to kill any American he deemed a threat without charge or trial, it was Holder who went public to announce the "kill list" policy.

Last week, the Justice Department confirmed that it was Holder who personally approved the equally abusive search of Fox News correspondent James Rosen's e-mail and phone records in another story involving leaked classified information. In the 2010 application for a secret warrant, the Obama administration named Rosen as "an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator" to the leaking of classified materials. The Justice Department even investigated Rosen's parents' telephone number, and Holder was there to justify every attack on the news media.

Yet, at this month's hearing, the attorney general had had his fill. Accordingly, Holder adopted an embarrassing mantra of "I have no knowledge" and "I had no involvement" throughout the questioning. When he was not reciting the equivalent to his name, rank and serial number, he was implicating his aide, Deputy Attorney General James Cole. Cole, it appears, is Holder's sin eater. Holder was so busy denying responsibility for today's scandals, he began denying known facts about older scandals, such as the "Fast and Furious" gun operation....

The feeble response was the ultimate proof that these are Obama's sins despite his effort to feign ignorance. It did not matter that Holder is the sin eater who has lost his stomach or that such mortal sins are not so easily digested. Indeed, these sins should be fatal for any attorney general.

Holder: Obama’s sin eater - neoneocon

It’s interesting that on the issue of Rosen some elements of the left seem to be joining the right in condemning Holder and calling for his resignation. Turley, however, is somewhat unusual on the left in recognizing that Holder’s sins should ultimately be laid at the feet of President Obama.



Krauthammer: Holder Not Sensing Gravity of Situation ‘Makes You Wonder If He Was Anesthetized’ - Noel Sheppard/Newsbusters



DRUDGE HEADLINES:
SCANDAL? WHAT SCANDAL?
Washington launches four different investigations into IRS mess...
Issa subpoenas State Dept. documents on Benghazi...
REPORT: HOLDER WENT JUDGE SHOPPING TO OBTAIN FOXNEWS SUBPOENA...
House Judiciary investigating whether Attorney General lied under oath...
REPORT: Holder 'beginning to feel creeping sense of personal remorse'...

Friday, May 17, 2013

How About Scandal, Incompetence, Venality, Hubris, Vanity and Error to Start

Lost amidst the White House he-said-she-said of finger pointing, scandal, incompetence, venality, hubris, vanity, error, greed, gluttony, embarrassment, cover up, stupidity, amateur bungling, brownnosing, grandstanding, photo-opting and hearings as the result of a few minor mistakes made by the Obama administration- an administration which rode roughshod over a several outdated laws, certain small parts of the Bill of Rights written by irrelevant white dudes; an administration that got people killed, violated civil rights, harassed government employees, ignored it’s basic responsibilities and common sense- are these small, little, niggling details: The folks in charge are freaking hypocrites; and because the are hypocrites they have nothing to offer the American people.

Nothing as in Zero (0).

Their ideas don’t work, and all they stand for is some vague notion of fairness and equity, with themselves as judge over what’s fair and what’s not. Even in that they fail.

As demonstrated recently, their notions of fairness and equity are worrisome. They want to win politically, by fair means or foul. That’s their only idea of fairness. ◼ John Ransom - Townhall

This Is No Ordinary Scandal - Peggy Noonan/Wall St. Journal

We are in the midst of the worst Washington scandal since Watergate. The reputation of the Obama White House has, among conservatives, gone from sketchy to sinister, and, among liberals, from unsatisfying to dangerous. No one likes what they're seeing. The Justice Department assault on the Associated Press and the ugly politicization of the Internal Revenue Service have left the administration's credibility deeply, probably irretrievably damaged. They don't look jerky now, they look dirty. The patina of high-mindedness the president enjoyed is gone.

Something big has shifted. The standing of the administration has changed.

As always it comes down to trust. Do you trust the president's answers when he's pressed on an uncomfortable story? Do you trust his people to be sober and fair-minded as they go about their work? Do you trust the IRS and the Justice Department? You do not....

It is not even remotely possible that all this was an accident, a mistake. Again, only conservative groups were targeted, not liberal. It is not even remotely possible that only one IRS office was involved. Lois Lerner, who oversees tax-exempt groups for the IRS, was the person who finally acknowledged, under pressure of a looming investigative report, some of what the IRS was doing. She told reporters the actions were the work of "frontline people" in Cincinnati. But other offices were involved, including Washington. It is not even remotely possible the actions were the work of just a few agents. This was more systemic. It was an operation. The word was out: Get the Democratic Party's foes. It is not remotely possible nobody in the IRS knew what was going on until very recently. The Washington Post reported efforts to target the conservative groups reached the highest levels of the agency by May 2012—far earlier than the agency had acknowledged. Reuters reported high-level IRS officials, including its chief counsel, knew in August 2011 about the targeting.

The White House is reported to be shellshocked at public reaction to the scandal. But why? Were they so high-handed, so essentially ignorant, that they didn't understand what it would mean to the American people when their IRS—the revenue-collecting arm of the U.S. government—is revealed as a low, ugly and bullying tool of the reigning powers? If they didn't know how Americans would react to that, what did they know?

Wednesday, April 24, 2013

A federal judge gave a skeptical reception Wednesday to the Obama administration’s arguments that the courts should stay out of the dispute over the Justice Department’s refusal to turn over some Operation Fast and Furious-related documents to a House committee.

Judge skeptical of Obama in executive privilege fight - Josh Gerstein/POLITICO

Last June, the fight led President Barack Obama to assert executive privilege over the records of the controversial gun trafficking investigation, and to House votes finding Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson spent most of an hour-and-a-half hearing Wednesday sharply questioning Deputy Assistant Attorney General Ian Gershengorn about the administration’s assertion that a lawsuit the House panel filed last year should be dismissed and the legislative and executive branches of government left to work out their differences by themselves.

“That lack of a judicial role is a deliberate part of the constitutional structure,” Gershengorn insisted, as he urged the judge to stick with the historic practice of the Congress and executive agencies sorting out such fights on their own.

“It has been messy. It has been contentious. It has been political … but it has worked,” he said.

Jackson, an Obama appointee, repeatedly suggested that Gershengorn was giving the judiciary short shrift.

“You keep talking about the two [branches] as if the third one isn’t there,” she said.